Skiing Nordic

 

Re: hip shrug

That's put very well.

It's the "hips should naturally rise" together that I'm questioning.
As you say, on the gliding ski, the knee and ankle unflex a little
while remaining a little flex. If your unweighted leg that just
pushed off is straight, it is essentially longer than your gliding
leg. To get it back under the body, you need to reflex it at the knee
and ankle so it fits under you. What I seem to see in some skiers is
that they lift the hip to make room for the longer, unweighted leg in
order to get it back under them.

I'm just wondering if this is a technique flaw that should be
addressed? Or just a technique characteristic that some people do
this more than others.






On Jan 16, 12:35=A0pm, ro...@invalid.net wrote:
> No shrug needed. =A0Or, to put it differently, properly done it's a
> combination of the arms and upper torso (abs, chest, shoulders, lats as
> one), and the ankles (and knees) partly unflexing, not the hips
> independently rising themselves. A good way to get a sense of how this
> works is to stand in a ski position, then raise the upper torso and
> arms as if you had poles in hand and were going to double pole. Your
> hips should naturally rise as a result (and ankles and knees unflex a
> bit, while keeping a little flex). V2 is just a series of one-legged
> double poles synchronized with glide in between. Hope that helps.
>
> RM
>
>
>
> docbyro wrote:
> > Not readily available. =A0The reason I came up with "shrug" is that it's=

> > similar to when you shrug your shoulder. =A0In this case, shrugging one
> > and not the other.
>
> > On Jan 15, 9:48=A0pm, ro...@invalid.net wrote:
> > > Do you have a WC video moment or two you could refer those of us to th=
at
> > > don't quite have a picture of what you mean by hip shrug?
>
> > > "Brian Pauley" wrote:
> > > > Hi,
>
> > > > A question to all you technique buffs and coaches out there. =A0How =
does
> > > > somebody get rid of, for lack of better terms, a hip shrug when they=
are
> > > > bringing up their trailing leg that they've just pushed of with duri=
ng the
> > > > V-2? =A0In other words, even though the person stands up onto the ne=
w gliding
> > > > ski, and is not skiing in the back seat, the upcoming leg's hip rise=
s just
> > > > slightly as the leg comes under the body.
>
> > > > Or maybe this isn't a big deal. =A0I see some guys do in on the Worl=
d Cup
> > > > circuit as well. =A0Seems like it's usually the taller skinnier guys=
from
> > > > smaller countries, but that just might be my bias. =A0Should the tra=
iling leg
> > > > be bent more, or earlier, during recovery? =A0Should the gliding leg=
of the
> > > > V-2 be even straighter to allow the straighter trailing leg to come =
in with
> > > > more even/level hips?
>
> > > > Any thoughts are appreciated.
>
> > > > Brian- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
 

Article References :

hip shrug
 

See Also : Re: double poling technique

Welcome! What format are you using to send this? Text only is
preferable.

There has been a shift from straight-legged double poling to using the
legs more, ending up in a very partial squat. For example, look at the
video of the men's 50K race yesterday (e.g., last video at 1:30, 8:50,
etc.). Even though they are going slow because of the falling snow,
you'll see them bring their hips forward, sometimes come up on the balls
of the feet and then pole into the upper legs, creating a 1/4 squat.
Hands follow through to just past the hips and, if done quickly at the
end, it creates a final thrust forward with the feet (it can also be
done intentionally from the ankles, but from the arms is more stable).
All this creates more continuous power because it can be done more
quickly than the older style, and it can be done in a more relaxed way
when desired (such as in this race most of the time). It is also much
easier on the back, allowing it (and the legs) to stretch without having
to extend as far.

I don't think the push is longer, since the follow through is generally
shorter, depending on the speed and snow conditions. Rather, shorter
push is compensated for by higher turnover and more efficient use of the
upper legs, the strongest part of the body. Remember, poling is about
propulsion and has two key points: 1) starting down from an almost
vertical pole position (elbows flexed mid-range) aids in creating better
push off through the ski camber (in that sense, they are like crutches);
and 2) using the upper body helps increase the arm/hand acceleration
through the area where the poles become relatively horizontal and, thus,
where the most propulsion forward occurs. A great double pole demo to
watch is Kris Freeman in 2003:
http://avari181.mt.luth.se/pub2/WorldChamp-03/ -- WCRelayMen2.avi
(8:20-9:10).

Gene

Tall Willy wrote:
>
>
Hi all,

>
 

>
This is my first posting on this mailing list. I'm pretty new in cross country skiing. I live in the Netherlands, so here's no snow and no hills :-(

>
 

>
I train for the Birkebeinerrennet in Norway on march 19th. I do a lot of double poling workouts on my rollerskies, but unfortunately without technical coaching.

>
 

>
My question is: Why isn't it good to 'sit' after the push. I see on tv that with double poling the knees aren't bent much while the upper body bends over so that the body hooks in about 90 degrees. Besides that I can see that the lower legs are pushed forward, so the body mass is lifted more to the back of the skies.

>
 

>
When I try this technique the result is quite a pain in the lower back (also due to my 'spinal stenosis'). With some trial and error I found the best technique for my back (and speed);First get my hips and shoulders as high and forward as possible to get a good hang in my poles, and during the push moving into a more or less speedskating position (knees bends to almost 90 degrees, weight a littlebit on the back of the skies and relaxing shoulders. I can do extensive endurance double poling for at least 1,5 hour in about 9 miles/h (flat terrain), without hurting my back.

>
Isn't it correct to say that bending your knees more makes a longer push possible? And isn't it so that shifting your weight to the back makes you glide faster, like downhill skiing?

>
 

>
Will I gain much speed when I just try harder on the 'good technique'? I don't need to win the beauty contest on technique. I just want to go as fast as possible with the least effort :-)

>
 

>
Thanks for any advice,
Wilfred

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